Discussion:
Muslims say "We will use your democracy to destroy your democracy."
(too old to reply)
Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
2005-08-02 09:04:37 UTC
Permalink
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/july/0712_london_havenp.shtml

London a Longtime Haven for Radical Muslim Figures
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
July 12, 2005

(CNSNews.com) -- Terrorism experts have long warned that Islamists espousing
violence enjoy a haven in London, an assertion that has come into sharp
focus again with the July 7 bombings in the British capital.

For years, Britain tolerated the presence of high-profile and outspoken
Islamic clerics whose fiery sermons frequently extolled jihad against the
West. Since 9/11, however, anti-terror legislation has been tightened, some
groups have been outlawed, terror rings have been broken and some
controversial figures have been arrested.

One of them, Egyptian-born Abu Hamza al-Masri, went on trial this week at
London's Old Bailey courthouse, where he faces more than a dozen charges
include inciting terrorism and racial hatred.

Al-Masri was formerly the imam at a North London mosque linked to confessed
al-Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid, who tried to blow
up a U.S.-bound flight from Europe with explosives hidden in his shoe.

He also is wanted in the United States and Yemen on terror-related charges.

For years before his May 2004 arrest, al-Masri used the Finsbury Park mosque
as a base to speak for what he insisted were political causes.

Despite his radical rhetoric and close links to a group that claimed
responsibility for attacks including the Oct. 2000 bombing of the USS Cole
in Yemen, it was only in 2003 that the authorities acted against him,
stripping him of his British citizenship and barring him from preaching at
the mosque.

Al-Masri then took to addressing his followers -- mostly young British- and
foreign-born Muslims -- on the street outside the building.

Britain also detained another London-based extremist cleric, Abu Qatada,
whose sermons were found in the 9/11 hijackers' apartment in Germany.

But other radical leaders remained free, among them Omar Bakri Mohammed, a
Syrian-born cleric who has promoted and praised violence against Israel,
America and Britain for years.

Yael Shahar of the Israel-based International Policy Institute for
Counter-Terrorism (ICT) said that although London had been a center for
Islamic extremism for years, the British security services only started
taking the threat seriously after 9/11.

Before that, Shahar said, "the firebrand clerics who preached jihad and
hatred of the West were dismissed as 'armchair warriors' by British
intelligence."

Even since 9/11, however, critics have questioned Britain's apparent
tolerance for highly-controversial Muslim figures.

As recently as last year, the government allowed a visit by Yusuf
al-Qaradawi, a Egyptian cleric who has publicly voiced support for suicide
bombers. London's leftwing Mayor Ken Livingstone, who has called al-Qaradawi
a "man of peace," welcomed him as an honored guest (see related story).

Exploiting democracy

In 2000, Bakri told Cybercast News Service in an interview: "We will use
your democracy to destroy your democracy."

Britain's legal system and its willingness late last century to offer asylum
to figures like Bakri, al-Masri and Abu Qatada made it a magnet for exiled
radical organizations.

"In the past decade, the United Kingdom's undisputed political, economic,
and cultural center has also become a major world center of political Islam
and anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, and anti-American activism," writes Hebrew
University of Jerusalem academic Robert S. Wistrich, in online excerpts of
an article to be published soon.

"Through its Arabic-language newspapers, magazines, and publishing houses,
not to mention its flourishing network of bookshops, mosques, and community
centers, radical Islam has taken full advantage of what British democracy
has to offer for its anti-Western goals, reaping the benefits of London's
significance as a hub of global finance, electronic media, and mass
communications technology."

Osama bin Laden himself laid the groundwork for a London-based network,
according to terrorism researcher Yossef Bodansky.

In his biography on bin Laden, written before 9/11, Bodansky wrote that the
al-Qaeda leader based himself in the London suburb of Wembley in 1994. By
the time he left, after the Saudis began demanding his expulsion, "he had
consolidated a comprehensive system of entities" in the city.

In Nov. 1998, Bakri hosted a conference in London called Western Challenge
and Islamic Response, attended by more than a dozen extremist groups. At the
gathering, Bakri voiced support for Osama bin Laden's jihad and said recent
anti-U.S. attacks such as those in Saudi Arabia and East Africa were
"legitimate acts."

Following 9/11, Bakri was one of the first Islamist figures to publicly
applaud the attacks.

Since then he has spoken often of his support for violent jihad, even
admitting to signing up recruits for Islamist campaigns in places like
Kashmir and Israel.

A number of governments -- including those of India, Algeria, Sri Lanka and
Egypt -- have long complained about the presence in Britain of groups
connected to violent campaign in those countries.

Extremists recruited in Britain for terrorist acts abroad include "shoe
bomber" Reid, eight men involved in kidnappings in Yemen, and two men who
carried out a deadly suicide bombing in Tel Aviv in 2003.

Bakri insisted that fighters were never recruited to carry out violent acts
inside Britain itself, although he did say it was his dream to see the
Islamic banner flying over Downing Street.

After the fall of the Taliban and its al-Qaeda allies in Afghanistan in late
2001, a member of Bakri's organization, Hassan Butt, told the BBC from
Pakistan that British Muslim volunteers who had been fighting in Afghanistan
would return to Britain where they would "strike at the heart of the enemy."

In an interview with a Portuguese magazine in April 2004, Bakri said attacks
on London were "inevitable."

One "very well organized" group in London called itself al-Qaeda Europe, he
said. "I know that they are ready to launch a big operation."

Copyright © 1998-2005 CNSNews.com - Cybercast News Service
Cyber Quaid
2005-08-02 10:11:15 UTC
Permalink
It's always so easy to manufacture quotes on the internet and present them
as if a real person is reporting them..

Nice try using a web site only you know about. At least don't call it news
just call it a figment of your imagination.
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/july/0712_london_havenp.shtml
London a Longtime Haven for Radical Muslim Figures
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
July 12, 2005
(CNSNews.com) -- Terrorism experts have long warned that Islamists espousing
violence enjoy a haven in London, an assertion that has come into sharp
focus again with the July 7 bombings in the British capital.
For years, Britain tolerated the presence of high-profile and outspoken
Islamic clerics whose fiery sermons frequently extolled jihad against the
West. Since 9/11, however, anti-terror legislation has been tightened, some
groups have been outlawed, terror rings have been broken and some
controversial figures have been arrested.
One of them, Egyptian-born Abu Hamza al-Masri, went on trial this week at
London's Old Bailey courthouse, where he faces more than a dozen charges
include inciting terrorism and racial hatred.
Al-Masri was formerly the imam at a North London mosque linked to confessed
al-Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid, who tried to blow
up a U.S.-bound flight from Europe with explosives hidden in his shoe.
He also is wanted in the United States and Yemen on terror-related charges.
For years before his May 2004 arrest, al-Masri used the Finsbury Park mosque
as a base to speak for what he insisted were political causes.
Despite his radical rhetoric and close links to a group that claimed
responsibility for attacks including the Oct. 2000 bombing of the USS Cole
in Yemen, it was only in 2003 that the authorities acted against him,
stripping him of his British citizenship and barring him from preaching at
the mosque.
Al-Masri then took to addressing his followers -- mostly young British- and
foreign-born Muslims -- on the street outside the building.
Britain also detained another London-based extremist cleric, Abu Qatada,
whose sermons were found in the 9/11 hijackers' apartment in Germany.
But other radical leaders remained free, among them Omar Bakri Mohammed, a
Syrian-born cleric who has promoted and praised violence against Israel,
America and Britain for years.
Yael Shahar of the Israel-based International Policy Institute for
Counter-Terrorism (ICT) said that although London had been a center for
Islamic extremism for years, the British security services only started
taking the threat seriously after 9/11.
Before that, Shahar said, "the firebrand clerics who preached jihad and
hatred of the West were dismissed as 'armchair warriors' by British
intelligence."
Even since 9/11, however, critics have questioned Britain's apparent
tolerance for highly-controversial Muslim figures.
As recently as last year, the government allowed a visit by Yusuf
al-Qaradawi, a Egyptian cleric who has publicly voiced support for suicide
bombers. London's leftwing Mayor Ken Livingstone, who has called al-Qaradawi
a "man of peace," welcomed him as an honored guest (see related story).
Exploiting democracy
In 2000, Bakri told Cybercast News Service in an interview: "We will use
your democracy to destroy your democracy."
Britain's legal system and its willingness late last century to offer asylum
to figures like Bakri, al-Masri and Abu Qatada made it a magnet for exiled
radical organizations.
"In the past decade, the United Kingdom's undisputed political, economic,
and cultural center has also become a major world center of political Islam
and anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, and anti-American activism," writes Hebrew
University of Jerusalem academic Robert S. Wistrich, in online excerpts of
an article to be published soon.
"Through its Arabic-language newspapers, magazines, and publishing houses,
not to mention its flourishing network of bookshops, mosques, and community
centers, radical Islam has taken full advantage of what British democracy
has to offer for its anti-Western goals, reaping the benefits of London's
significance as a hub of global finance, electronic media, and mass
communications technology."
Osama bin Laden himself laid the groundwork for a London-based network,
according to terrorism researcher Yossef Bodansky.
In his biography on bin Laden, written before 9/11, Bodansky wrote that the
al-Qaeda leader based himself in the London suburb of Wembley in 1994. By
the time he left, after the Saudis began demanding his expulsion, "he had
consolidated a comprehensive system of entities" in the city.
In Nov. 1998, Bakri hosted a conference in London called Western Challenge
and Islamic Response, attended by more than a dozen extremist groups. At the
gathering, Bakri voiced support for Osama bin Laden's jihad and said recent
anti-U.S. attacks such as those in Saudi Arabia and East Africa were
"legitimate acts."
Following 9/11, Bakri was one of the first Islamist figures to publicly
applaud the attacks.
Since then he has spoken often of his support for violent jihad, even
admitting to signing up recruits for Islamist campaigns in places like
Kashmir and Israel.
A number of governments -- including those of India, Algeria, Sri Lanka and
Egypt -- have long complained about the presence in Britain of groups
connected to violent campaign in those countries.
Extremists recruited in Britain for terrorist acts abroad include "shoe
bomber" Reid, eight men involved in kidnappings in Yemen, and two men who
carried out a deadly suicide bombing in Tel Aviv in 2003.
Bakri insisted that fighters were never recruited to carry out violent acts
inside Britain itself, although he did say it was his dream to see the
Islamic banner flying over Downing Street.
After the fall of the Taliban and its al-Qaeda allies in Afghanistan in late
2001, a member of Bakri's organization, Hassan Butt, told the BBC from
Pakistan that British Muslim volunteers who had been fighting in Afghanistan
would return to Britain where they would "strike at the heart of the enemy."
In an interview with a Portuguese magazine in April 2004, Bakri said attacks
on London were "inevitable."
One "very well organized" group in London called itself al-Qaeda Europe, he
said. "I know that they are ready to launch a big operation."
Copyright © 1998-2005 CNSNews.com - Cybercast News Service
Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
2005-08-04 09:02:04 UTC
Permalink
Muslims do like to cover the truth ... 9/11 it was the Jews, Bali it was
America, etc.. when caught out Muslims blame others, tell the world that
Islam means peace when it means Surrender. Lies is the hallmark of Muslims
as is terrorism.
Post by Cyber Quaid
It's always so easy to manufacture quotes on the internet and present them
as if a real person is reporting them..
Nice try using a web site only you know about. At least don't call it news
just call it a figment of your imagination.
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/july/0712_london_havenp.shtml
London a Longtime Haven for Radical Muslim Figures
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
July 12, 2005
(CNSNews.com) -- Terrorism experts have long warned that Islamists
espousing
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
violence enjoy a haven in London, an assertion that has come into sharp
focus again with the July 7 bombings in the British capital.
For years, Britain tolerated the presence of high-profile and outspoken
Islamic clerics whose fiery sermons frequently extolled jihad against the
West. Since 9/11, however, anti-terror legislation has been tightened,
some
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
groups have been outlawed, terror rings have been broken and some
controversial figures have been arrested.
One of them, Egyptian-born Abu Hamza al-Masri, went on trial this week at
London's Old Bailey courthouse, where he faces more than a dozen charges
include inciting terrorism and racial hatred.
Al-Masri was formerly the imam at a North London mosque linked to
confessed
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
al-Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid, who tried to
blow
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
up a U.S.-bound flight from Europe with explosives hidden in his shoe.
He also is wanted in the United States and Yemen on terror-related
charges.
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
For years before his May 2004 arrest, al-Masri used the Finsbury Park
mosque
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
as a base to speak for what he insisted were political causes.
Despite his radical rhetoric and close links to a group that claimed
responsibility for attacks including the Oct. 2000 bombing of the USS Cole
in Yemen, it was only in 2003 that the authorities acted against him,
stripping him of his British citizenship and barring him from preaching at
the mosque.
Al-Masri then took to addressing his followers -- mostly young British-
and
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
foreign-born Muslims -- on the street outside the building.
Britain also detained another London-based extremist cleric, Abu Qatada,
whose sermons were found in the 9/11 hijackers' apartment in Germany.
But other radical leaders remained free, among them Omar Bakri Mohammed, a
Syrian-born cleric who has promoted and praised violence against Israel,
America and Britain for years.
Yael Shahar of the Israel-based International Policy Institute for
Counter-Terrorism (ICT) said that although London had been a center for
Islamic extremism for years, the British security services only started
taking the threat seriously after 9/11.
Before that, Shahar said, "the firebrand clerics who preached jihad and
hatred of the West were dismissed as 'armchair warriors' by British
intelligence."
Even since 9/11, however, critics have questioned Britain's apparent
tolerance for highly-controversial Muslim figures.
As recently as last year, the government allowed a visit by Yusuf
al-Qaradawi, a Egyptian cleric who has publicly voiced support for suicide
bombers. London's leftwing Mayor Ken Livingstone, who has called
al-Qaradawi
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
a "man of peace," welcomed him as an honored guest (see related story).
Exploiting democracy
In 2000, Bakri told Cybercast News Service in an interview: "We will use
your democracy to destroy your democracy."
Britain's legal system and its willingness late last century to offer
asylum
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
to figures like Bakri, al-Masri and Abu Qatada made it a magnet for exiled
radical organizations.
"In the past decade, the United Kingdom's undisputed political, economic,
and cultural center has also become a major world center of political
Islam
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
and anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, and anti-American activism," writes Hebrew
University of Jerusalem academic Robert S. Wistrich, in online excerpts of
an article to be published soon.
"Through its Arabic-language newspapers, magazines, and publishing houses,
not to mention its flourishing network of bookshops, mosques, and
community
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
centers, radical Islam has taken full advantage of what British democracy
has to offer for its anti-Western goals, reaping the benefits of London's
significance as a hub of global finance, electronic media, and mass
communications technology."
Osama bin Laden himself laid the groundwork for a London-based network,
according to terrorism researcher Yossef Bodansky.
In his biography on bin Laden, written before 9/11, Bodansky wrote that
the
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
al-Qaeda leader based himself in the London suburb of Wembley in 1994. By
the time he left, after the Saudis began demanding his expulsion, "he had
consolidated a comprehensive system of entities" in the city.
In Nov. 1998, Bakri hosted a conference in London called Western Challenge
and Islamic Response, attended by more than a dozen extremist groups. At
the
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
gathering, Bakri voiced support for Osama bin Laden's jihad and said
recent
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
anti-U.S. attacks such as those in Saudi Arabia and East Africa were
"legitimate acts."
Following 9/11, Bakri was one of the first Islamist figures to publicly
applaud the attacks.
Since then he has spoken often of his support for violent jihad, even
admitting to signing up recruits for Islamist campaigns in places like
Kashmir and Israel.
A number of governments -- including those of India, Algeria, Sri Lanka
and
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
Egypt -- have long complained about the presence in Britain of groups
connected to violent campaign in those countries.
Extremists recruited in Britain for terrorist acts abroad include "shoe
bomber" Reid, eight men involved in kidnappings in Yemen, and two men who
carried out a deadly suicide bombing in Tel Aviv in 2003.
Bakri insisted that fighters were never recruited to carry out violent
acts
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
inside Britain itself, although he did say it was his dream to see the
Islamic banner flying over Downing Street.
After the fall of the Taliban and its al-Qaeda allies in Afghanistan in
late
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
2001, a member of Bakri's organization, Hassan Butt, told the BBC from
Pakistan that British Muslim volunteers who had been fighting in
Afghanistan
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
would return to Britain where they would "strike at the heart of the
enemy."
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
In an interview with a Portuguese magazine in April 2004, Bakri said
attacks
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
on London were "inevitable."
One "very well organized" group in London called itself al-Qaeda Europe,
he
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
said. "I know that they are ready to launch a big operation."
Copyright © 1998-2005 CNSNews.com - Cybercast News Service
markrivers
2005-08-02 14:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Condemning terror attacks or offering condolences are far from enough.
What is needed right now and very desparately is to reform Islam and
educate its followers to be free from hatred, greed and jelousy against
fellow human beings unconditionally regardless of race, religion,
language, culture, gender, etc.

The past achivements of Islam and its followers, if any, does not do
any good today.

The unconditional hatred and violence Islam and its followers today are
projecting against innocent and defenceless certainly is not any
indication of that past glory, and totally unexcusable regardless of
their past. The alleged past achievements of Islam and Moslems, in
terms of today, is nothing more than bull-shit unles Islam and Moslems
act like civilized human beings as they claim to be.

The true character of Islam and its followers today is the
unconditional hatred and violence they are projecting against the
innocent and defenceless. I cannot excuse the unconditional hatred and
violence Islam and Moslems are projecting against the innocent and
defenceless today just because of alleged past glory.

Either Moslems reform themsleves and Islam in peaceful and painless
ways, or the other will have to it which might be be very painful.








http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/simple.html


[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from
whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter,
and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with
you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the
recompense of the unbelievers.

[3-151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve,
because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no
authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the
unjust.

[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved,
so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them
friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn
back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take
not from among them a friend or a helper.

[4.91] You will find others who desire that they should be safe from
you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to
the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not
withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their
hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and
against these We have given you a clear authority.

[5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant,
but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore
We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and
Allah will inform them of what they did.

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His
apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they
should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be
cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be
as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall
have a grievous chastisement,

[5-51] O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for
friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes
them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not
guide the unjust people.

[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore
make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of
those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off
every fingertip of them.

52.45] Leave them then till they meet that day of theirs wherein they
shall be made to swoon (with terror):

There is no compulsion in Islam as long as one is a Muslim.

[2-256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has
become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in
the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the
firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing,
Knowing.

Islam clearly cannot allow for any other faith. From the hadith:

Sahih Muslim
Book 019, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger
of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and
Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but
Muslim.

Sahih Muslim
The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman)
Book 001, Number 0033:

It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the
Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people
till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the
messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if
they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my
behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
Post by Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/july/0712_london_havenp.shtml
London a Longtime Haven for Radical Muslim Figures
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
July 12, 2005
(CNSNews.com) -- Terrorism experts have long warned that Islamists espousing
violence enjoy a haven in London, an assertion that has come into sharp
focus again with the July 7 bombings in the British capital.
For years, Britain tolerated the presence of high-profile and outspoken
Islamic clerics whose fiery sermons frequently extolled jihad against the
West. Since 9/11, however, anti-terror legislation has been tightened, some
groups have been outlawed, terror rings have been broken and some
controversial figures have been arrested.
One of them, Egyptian-born Abu Hamza al-Masri, went on trial this week at
London's Old Bailey courthouse, where he faces more than a dozen charges
include inciting terrorism and racial hatred.
Al-Masri was formerly the imam at a North London mosque linked to confessed
al-Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid, who tried to blow
up a U.S.-bound flight from Europe with explosives hidden in his shoe.
He also is wanted in the United States and Yemen on terror-related charges.
For years before his May 2004 arrest, al-Masri used the Finsbury Park mosque
as a base to speak for what he insisted were political causes.
Despite his radical rhetoric and close links to a group that claimed
responsibility for attacks including the Oct. 2000 bombing of the USS Cole
in Yemen, it was only in 2003 that the authorities acted against him,
stripping him of his British citizenship and barring him from preaching at
the mosque.
Al-Masri then took to addressing his followers -- mostly young British- and
foreign-born Muslims -- on the street outside the building.
Britain also detained another London-based extremist cleric, Abu Qatada,
whose sermons were found in the 9/11 hijackers' apartment in Germany.
But other radical leaders remained free, among them Omar Bakri Mohammed, a
Syrian-born cleric who has promoted and praised violence against Israel,
America and Britain for years.
Yael Shahar of the Israel-based International Policy Institute for
Counter-Terrorism (ICT) said that although London had been a center for
Islamic extremism for years, the British security services only started
taking the threat seriously after 9/11.
Before that, Shahar said, "the firebrand clerics who preached jihad and
hatred of the West were dismissed as 'armchair warriors' by British
intelligence."
Even since 9/11, however, critics have questioned Britain's apparent
tolerance for highly-controversial Muslim figures.
As recently as last year, the government allowed a visit by Yusuf
al-Qaradawi, a Egyptian cleric who has publicly voiced support for suicide
bombers. London's leftwing Mayor Ken Livingstone, who has called al-Qaradawi
a "man of peace," welcomed him as an honored guest (see related story).
Exploiting democracy
In 2000, Bakri told Cybercast News Service in an interview: "We will use
your democracy to destroy your democracy."
Britain's legal system and its willingness late last century to offer asylum
to figures like Bakri, al-Masri and Abu Qatada made it a magnet for exiled
radical organizations.
"In the past decade, the United Kingdom's undisputed political, economic,
and cultural center has also become a major world center of political Islam
and anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, and anti-American activism," writes Hebrew
University of Jerusalem academic Robert S. Wistrich, in online excerpts of
an article to be published soon.
"Through its Arabic-language newspapers, magazines, and publishing houses,
not to mention its flourishing network of bookshops, mosques, and community
centers, radical Islam has taken full advantage of what British democracy
has to offer for its anti-Western goals, reaping the benefits of London's
significance as a hub of global finance, electronic media, and mass
communications technology."
Osama bin Laden himself laid the groundwork for a London-based network,
according to terrorism researcher Yossef Bodansky.
In his biography on bin Laden, written before 9/11, Bodansky wrote that the
al-Qaeda leader based himself in the London suburb of Wembley in 1994. By
the time he left, after the Saudis began demanding his expulsion, "he had
consolidated a comprehensive system of entities" in the city.
In Nov. 1998, Bakri hosted a conference in London called Western Challenge
and Islamic Response, attended by more than a dozen extremist groups. At the
gathering, Bakri voiced support for Osama bin Laden's jihad and said recent
anti-U.S. attacks such as those in Saudi Arabia and East Africa were
"legitimate acts."
Following 9/11, Bakri was one of the first Islamist figures to publicly
applaud the attacks.
Since then he has spoken often of his support for violent jihad, even
admitting to signing up recruits for Islamist campaigns in places like
Kashmir and Israel.
A number of governments -- including those of India, Algeria, Sri Lanka and
Egypt -- have long complained about the presence in Britain of groups
connected to violent campaign in those countries.
Extremists recruited in Britain for terrorist acts abroad include "shoe
bomber" Reid, eight men involved in kidnappings in Yemen, and two men who
carried out a deadly suicide bombing in Tel Aviv in 2003.
Bakri insisted that fighters were never recruited to carry out violent acts
inside Britain itself, although he did say it was his dream to see the
Islamic banner flying over Downing Street.
After the fall of the Taliban and its al-Qaeda allies in Afghanistan in late
2001, a member of Bakri's organization, Hassan Butt, told the BBC from
Pakistan that British Muslim volunteers who had been fighting in Afghanistan
would return to Britain where they would "strike at the heart of the enemy."
In an interview with a Portuguese magazine in April 2004, Bakri said attacks
on London were "inevitable."
One "very well organized" group in London called itself al-Qaeda Europe, he
said. "I know that they are ready to launch a big operation."
Copyright © 1998-2005 CNSNews.com - Cybercast News Service
Panta Rhei
2005-08-02 23:27:20 UTC
Permalink
Another episode in Mark Rivers', the hapless Turkish spammer's, life:

Horse Bites Spammer's Bum!

Usenet's mentally depraved top spammer, dumb Mark Rivers, ended up in
hospital after a horse bit him on the bum during the filming of his new
instruction video on how to spam Usenet effectively with his unique copy &
paste technique.

Mark Rivers was filming the video at a stables in Bijeljina, northeast
Bosnia.

A horse saw a carrot he had been carrying to feed the horses sticking out
of his back pocket and went to eat it.

But the horse grabbed a chunk of Mark Rivers' bum, as well as the carrot.

He was taken to hospital where doctors treated the bite wound, local daily
Svet reported.

Rivers left hospital 24 hours later, vowing never to work with animals
again.
Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
2005-08-04 09:06:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by markrivers
Either Moslems reform themsleves and Islam in peaceful and painless
ways, or the other will have to it which might be be very painful.
You do not understand the nature of Islam is it pure evil and can never be
reformed. It is the basic tennants of Islam to be at war with unbelievers,
until the whole world is subdued and becomes Islamic. Lies and decite are
the tools of Islam.

See http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/ for more details.








http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/simple.html


[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from
whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter,
and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with
you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the
recompense of the unbelievers.

[3-151] We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve,
because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no
authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the
unjust.

[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved,
so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them
friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn
back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take
not from among them a friend or a helper.

[4.91] You will find others who desire that they should be safe from
you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to
the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not
withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their
hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and
against these We have given you a clear authority.

[5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant,
but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore
We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and
Allah will inform them of what they did.

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His
apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they
should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be
cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be
as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall
have a grievous chastisement,

[5-51] O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for
friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes
them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not
guide the unjust people.

[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore
make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of
those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off
every fingertip of them.

52.45] Leave them then till they meet that day of theirs wherein they
shall be made to swoon (with terror):

There is no compulsion in Islam as long as one is a Muslim.

[2-256] There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has
become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in
the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the
firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing,
Knowing.

Islam clearly cannot allow for any other faith. From the hadith:

Sahih Muslim
Book 019, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger
of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and
Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but
Muslim.

Sahih Muslim
The Book of Faith (Kitab Al-Iman)
Book 001, Number 0033:

It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the
Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people
till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the
messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if
they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my
behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
Post by markrivers
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/july/0712_london_havenp.shtml
London a Longtime Haven for Radical Muslim Figures
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
July 12, 2005
(CNSNews.com) -- Terrorism experts have long warned that Islamists espousing
violence enjoy a haven in London, an assertion that has come into sharp
focus again with the July 7 bombings in the British capital.
For years, Britain tolerated the presence of high-profile and outspoken
Islamic clerics whose fiery sermons frequently extolled jihad against the
West. Since 9/11, however, anti-terror legislation has been tightened, some
groups have been outlawed, terror rings have been broken and some
controversial figures have been arrested.
One of them, Egyptian-born Abu Hamza al-Masri, went on trial this week at
London's Old Bailey courthouse, where he faces more than a dozen charges
include inciting terrorism and racial hatred.
Al-Masri was formerly the imam at a North London mosque linked to confessed
al-Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid, who tried to blow
up a U.S.-bound flight from Europe with explosives hidden in his shoe.
He also is wanted in the United States and Yemen on terror-related charges.
For years before his May 2004 arrest, al-Masri used the Finsbury Park mosque
as a base to speak for what he insisted were political causes.
Despite his radical rhetoric and close links to a group that claimed
responsibility for attacks including the Oct. 2000 bombing of the USS Cole
in Yemen, it was only in 2003 that the authorities acted against him,
stripping him of his British citizenship and barring him from preaching at
the mosque.
Al-Masri then took to addressing his followers -- mostly young British- and
foreign-born Muslims -- on the street outside the building.
Britain also detained another London-based extremist cleric, Abu Qatada,
whose sermons were found in the 9/11 hijackers' apartment in Germany.
But other radical leaders remained free, among them Omar Bakri Mohammed, a
Syrian-born cleric who has promoted and praised violence against Israel,
America and Britain for years.
Yael Shahar of the Israel-based International Policy Institute for
Counter-Terrorism (ICT) said that although London had been a center for
Islamic extremism for years, the British security services only started
taking the threat seriously after 9/11.
Before that, Shahar said, "the firebrand clerics who preached jihad and
hatred of the West were dismissed as 'armchair warriors' by British
intelligence."
Even since 9/11, however, critics have questioned Britain's apparent
tolerance for highly-controversial Muslim figures.
As recently as last year, the government allowed a visit by Yusuf
al-Qaradawi, a Egyptian cleric who has publicly voiced support for suicide
bombers. London's leftwing Mayor Ken Livingstone, who has called al-Qaradawi
a "man of peace," welcomed him as an honored guest (see related story).
Exploiting democracy
In 2000, Bakri told Cybercast News Service in an interview: "We will use
your democracy to destroy your democracy."
Britain's legal system and its willingness late last century to offer asylum
to figures like Bakri, al-Masri and Abu Qatada made it a magnet for exiled
radical organizations.
"In the past decade, the United Kingdom's undisputed political, economic,
and cultural center has also become a major world center of political Islam
and anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, and anti-American activism," writes Hebrew
University of Jerusalem academic Robert S. Wistrich, in online excerpts of
an article to be published soon.
"Through its Arabic-language newspapers, magazines, and publishing houses,
not to mention its flourishing network of bookshops, mosques, and community
centers, radical Islam has taken full advantage of what British democracy
has to offer for its anti-Western goals, reaping the benefits of London's
significance as a hub of global finance, electronic media, and mass
communications technology."
Osama bin Laden himself laid the groundwork for a London-based network,
according to terrorism researcher Yossef Bodansky.
In his biography on bin Laden, written before 9/11, Bodansky wrote that the
al-Qaeda leader based himself in the London suburb of Wembley in 1994. By
the time he left, after the Saudis began demanding his expulsion, "he had
consolidated a comprehensive system of entities" in the city.
In Nov. 1998, Bakri hosted a conference in London called Western Challenge
and Islamic Response, attended by more than a dozen extremist groups. At the
gathering, Bakri voiced support for Osama bin Laden's jihad and said recent
anti-U.S. attacks such as those in Saudi Arabia and East Africa were
"legitimate acts."
Following 9/11, Bakri was one of the first Islamist figures to publicly
applaud the attacks.
Since then he has spoken often of his support for violent jihad, even
admitting to signing up recruits for Islamist campaigns in places like
Kashmir and Israel.
A number of governments -- including those of India, Algeria, Sri Lanka and
Egypt -- have long complained about the presence in Britain of groups
connected to violent campaign in those countries.
Extremists recruited in Britain for terrorist acts abroad include "shoe
bomber" Reid, eight men involved in kidnappings in Yemen, and two men who
carried out a deadly suicide bombing in Tel Aviv in 2003.
Bakri insisted that fighters were never recruited to carry out violent acts
inside Britain itself, although he did say it was his dream to see the
Islamic banner flying over Downing Street.
After the fall of the Taliban and its al-Qaeda allies in Afghanistan in late
2001, a member of Bakri's organization, Hassan Butt, told the BBC from
Pakistan that British Muslim volunteers who had been fighting in Afghanistan
would return to Britain where they would "strike at the heart of the enemy."
In an interview with a Portuguese magazine in April 2004, Bakri said attacks
on London were "inevitable."
One "very well organized" group in London called itself al-Qaeda Europe, he
said. "I know that they are ready to launch a big operation."
Copyright © 1998-2005 CNSNews.com - Cybercast News Service
unknown
2005-08-16 15:15:24 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:19:03 +1000, "Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri"
I certainly have not forgotten what happened to some of my relatives but I
also know that the thugs who did this were the Congress Party, I also know
the backers of terrorists were the Pakistani's, USA, The UK mainly.
Now you shouldhave no doubt why Jinnah opted for pakistan and events
later confrimed that Banyaa, Brahmin is way too shrewd to be trusted.

Jinnah being a very smart and highly educated fellow knew it full well
when he parted ways with congress.
Romanise
2005-08-16 16:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Now you shouldhave no doubt why Jinnah opted for pakistan and events
later confrimed that Banyaa, Brahmin is way too shrewd to be trusted.
Jinnah being a very smart and highly educated fellow knew it full well
when he parted ways with congress.
Jinnah knew that Indira Gandhi will be killed by her Sikh body guards?

It was his education that gave call for a 'Direct Action Day' on 16
August 1946 from Mumabai and asked muslims of the subcontinent "Come,
those who want to rise to heaven. Come, those who are simple, wanting
in peace of mind and who are in distress. Those who are thieves,
goondas (thugs), those without the strength of character and those who
do not say their prayers - all come. The shining gates of Heaven have
been opened for you. Let us enter in thousands"

Did he also foresee how millions of east Pakistanis will be sent to
heaven and theirs women will be raped in tens of thousands? After all
that incident happened 13 years prior to his prediction about Indira's
gunning down.
unknown
2005-08-16 23:46:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Romanise
Post by unknown
Now you shouldhave no doubt why Jinnah opted for pakistan and events
later confirmed that Banyaa, Brahmin is way too shrewd to be trusted.
Jinnah being a very smart and highly educated fellow knew it full well
when he parted ways with congress.
Jinnah knew that Indira Gandhi will be killed by her Sikh body guards?
Senile, Jinnah was not a crook Jutishi , he was not in a business of
future predictions for Hindu event and marriages success if wed on
certain day and time . But he was a smart lawyer and he can identify
what a certain peoples collective mentality is or will be in
future. So do not come up with these smart arse lines.
Post by Romanise
It was his education that gave call for a 'Direct Action Day' on 16
August 1946
After staying with congress and judging their ways & means for a long
time. Hindu leadership later proved what he was saying all along.
Post by Romanise
from Mumabai and asked muslims of the subcontinent "Come,
those who want to rise to heaven. Come, those who are simple, wanting
in peace of mind and who are in distress. Those who are thieves,
goondas (thugs), those without the strength of character and those who
do not say their prayers - all come.
Prayers or not prayers, that is between the person and God. Thieves
were left back in India who still holding Kashmir through power,
thievery and hypocrisy, though paying a heavy price for that.
Post by Romanise
The shining gates of Heaven have
been opened for you. Let us enter in thousands"
We may not be very rich or mature but at least we are free to pursue
our goals. Eat beef without any fear. Don't have pigs, monkeys roaming
about in our cities and making life even more miserable for common
man than what it already is.
Post by Romanise
Did he also foresee how millions of east Pakistanis will be sent to
heaven and theirs women will be raped in tens of thousands?
If third fourth generations or sons become idiots, how can you blame
their elders? Society also changes human's behavior. When I left
Pakistan, we never even knew what assault guns are. School fights were
limited to fist fights etc. at the most knives were used and that also
was taken with great shock & awe .

See how the planet earth has changed in last 25 years.
Post by Romanise
After all
that incident happened 13 years prior to his prediction about Indira's
gunning down.
Well Banyaa has a definite role in that too ( via Hindu teachers all
over Bangla Desh) . However I do blame Vadera bhutto and dumb Yahya
for most of it.

Now after 34 years , can you tell us what has Banyaa gained out of
that 71 Fiasco through his intrigue.
Romanise
2005-08-17 05:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Romanise
Post by unknown
Now you shouldhave no doubt why Jinnah opted for pakistan and events
later confirmed that Banyaa, Brahmin is way too shrewd to be trusted.
Jinnah being a very smart and highly educated fellow knew it full well
when he parted ways with congress.
Jinnah knew that Indira Gandhi will be killed by her Sikh body guards?
Senile, Jinnah was not a crook Jutishi , he was not in a business of
future predictions for Hindu event and marriages success if wed on
certain day and time . But he was a smart lawyer and he can identify
what a certain peoples collective mentality is or will be in
future. So do not come up with these smart arse lines.
Post by Romanise
It was his education that gave call for a 'Direct Action Day' on 16
August 1946
After staying with congress and judging their ways & means for a long
time. Hindu leadership later proved what he was saying all along.
Post by Romanise
from Mumabai and asked muslims of the subcontinent "Come,
those who want to rise to heaven. Come, those who are simple, wanting
in peace of mind and who are in distress. Those who are thieves,
goondas (thugs), those without the strength of character and those who
do not say their prayers - all come.
Prayers or not prayers, that is between the person and God. Thieves
were left back in India
After they did Jinnah's dirty work in 1946?
Post by unknown
who still holding Kashmir through power,
thievery and hypocrisy, though paying a heavy price for that.
Post by Romanise
The shining gates of Heaven have
been opened for you. Let us enter in thousands"
We may not be very rich or mature but at least we are free to pursue
our goals. Eat beef without any fear. Don't have pigs, monkeys roaming
about in our cities and making life even more miserable for common
man than what it already is.
Post by Romanise
Did he also foresee how millions of east Pakistanis will be sent to
heaven and theirs women will be raped in tens of thousands?
If third fourth generations or sons become idiots, how can you blame
their elders?
Jinnah himself started the trend by seeking help from "thieves, goondas
(thugs), those without the strength of character"
It was those without the strength of character who split up families
keeping half in India and young ones go to Pakistan to loot, murder and
plunder hindus and sikhs.

What you plant you reap.
Pakistan has become the nhub of jihad and muslim world's prime jihad
manufacturing nation because Jinnah started it all on his 'Direct
Action Day' of 16 August 1946. Jinnah daughter saw through it. You are
refusing to see it because your parents went to lahore to grab whatever
they can soaked with blood of hindus and sikhs.
Post by unknown
Society also changes human's behavior. When I left
Pakistan, we never even knew what assault guns are. School fights were
limited to fist fights etc. at the most knives were used and that also
was taken with great shock & awe .
See how the planet earth has changed in last 25 years.
Post by Romanise
After all
that incident happened 13 years prior to his prediction about Indira's
gunning down.
Well Banyaa has a definite role in that too ( via Hindu teachers all
over Bangla Desh) . However I do blame Vadera bhutto and dumb Yahya
for most of it.
Now after 34 years , can you tell us what has Banyaa gained out of
that 71 Fiasco through his intrigue.
unknown
2005-08-17 15:06:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Romanise
Post by unknown
Post by Romanise
from Mumabai and asked muslims of the subcontinent "Come,
those who want to rise to heaven. Come, those who are simple, wanting
in peace of mind and who are in distress. Those who are thieves,
goondas (thugs), those without the strength of character and those who
do not say their prayers - all come.
Prayers or not prayers, that is between the person and God. Thieves
were left back in India
After they did Jinnah's dirty work in 1946?
Aspiration of nationhood is dirty work in your dumb mind?? Then
Hindus should also be blamed for demanding Bharat Mata from Brits
devious Mr. Joshi. .
Post by Romanise
Jinnah himself started the trend by seeking help from "thieves, goondas
(thugs), those without the strength of character"
It was those without the strength of character who split up families
keeping half in India and young ones go to Pakistan to loot, murder and
plunder hindus and sikhs.
So all Muslim who got killed in East Punjab were kiilled, raped and
burned alive, killed themselves. Joshi to be taken seriously, you
have to be honest.
Post by Romanise
What you plant you reap.
Exactly, Dishonesty and injustice created Pakistan and then Bangladesh
and now Kashmir in near future. You cannot keep anyone in your home or
homeland with force, not even your own kids once they grow up. So
Kashmir will be independent, you like it or not. Just like East Timor,
Taiwan, Bangladesh etc
Post by Romanise
Pakistan has become the nhub of jihad and muslim world's prime jihad
manufacturing nation because Jinnah started it all on his 'Direct
Action Day' of 16 August 1946.
No because the dumb Russian came to takeover Afghanistan but see what
happened, they themselves split in many pieces. So get out of this
stupid Grand Bharat Mataa dreams and become human and sensible. World
has changed, especially when India was never one entity even in past
history. And Paksiatan and China are poised to keep India wheer it is
unless India makes pace with Pakistan to get a big role in the league
of nations( hint hint)
Post by Romanise
Jinnah daughter saw through it. You are
refusing to see it because your parents went to lahore to grab whatever
they can soaked with blood of hindus and sikhs.
They came to Lahore empty handed , saving their lives and with
clothes on their bodies. We never owned a house but lived in Railway
colonies throughout my childhood . Only on retirement with gratuity
money and a contribution from me, my parent could buy a small home of
their own. So much for the thievery and robbery of my parent this
idiot is accusing them. My mother lived with my uncle in Jacob Lines
and then in Abbey Sinia lines( don't know what they call it now) in
Karachi till she got married in Navy's small quarters.


carnage in India at partition happened by un-happy Hindus with
division of India who incited not so bright Sikh leader Tara Singh who
came out with slogan like ( only on my dead body , Pakistan will
become a reality) and started killing which then spread all over and
then even Hindu Sikhs paid a heavy price in the parts now called
Pakistan .

And about that Tara Singh's stupid rants, Pakistan still become a big
reality and even the first Muslim nation having nuclear technology. So
much for his wisdom or say shear stupidity.

So stop being devious and become a peaceful neighbor. Pakistan has
learnt from his mistakes and has put together enough punch, no East
Pakistan fiasco can be repeated.

Lets resolve Kashmir problem peacefully and both live peacefully like
good neighbors in peace, propserity and harmony forever like Europe
after hundreds if not thousands years of fighting. .
Romanise
2005-08-17 15:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Romanise
After they did Jinnah's dirty work in 1946?
Aspiration of nationhood is dirty work in your dumb mind?? Then
Hindus should also be blamed for demanding Bharat Mata from Brits
devious Mr. Joshi. .
Hindus and sikhs were willing to kill british for that but who did
Jinnah ask his minions to kill on 'Direct Action Day' of August 1946?
Post by unknown
So all Muslim who got killed in East Punjab were kiilled, raped and
burned alive, killed themselves. Joshi to be taken seriously, you
have to be honest.
They were killed by Sikhs who had managed to get away from West Punjab
with families slaughtered by muslims.
Post by unknown
Post by Romanise
What you plant you reap.
Exactly, Dishonesty and injustice created Pakistan and then Bangladesh
and now Kashmir in near future.
Dishonesty of Jinnah and his side kicks.
Pakistanis managed to get even Sikhs kill hindus in eighties, and yes
got terrorists surplus from US dollars and Saudi Rials get killings
started in Kashmir.
What state Pakistan has downgraded itself is everyone to see.
Post by unknown
You cannot keep anyone in your home or
homeland with force, not even your own kids once they grow up. So
Kashmir will be independent, you like it or not. Just like East Timor,
Taiwan, Bangladesh etc
There is bigger problem with Kashmir occupied by Pakistan.
Post by unknown
Post by Romanise
Pakistan has become the nhub of jihad and muslim world's prime jihad
manufacturing nation because Jinnah started it all on his 'Direct
Action Day' of 16 August 1946.
No because the dumb Russian came to takeover Afghanistan
Soviets came to help Afghans enter modern times. Pakistan played big
role in destroying Afghanistan and will have to pay back.
Post by unknown
but see what
happened, they themselves split in many pieces. So get out of this
stupid Grand Bharat Mataa dreams and become human and sensible. World
has changed, especially when India was never one entity even in past
history. And Paksiatan and China are poised to keep India wheer it is
unless India makes pace with Pakistan to get a big role in the league
of nations( hint hint)
Post by Romanise
Jinnah daughter saw through it. You are
refusing to see it because your parents went to lahore to grab whatever
they can soaked with blood of hindus and sikhs.
They came to Lahore empty handed , saving their lives and with
clothes on their bodies. We never owned a house but lived in Railway
colonies throughout my childhood . Only on retirement with gratuity
money and a contribution from me, my parent could buy a small home of
their own. So much for the thievery and robbery of my parent this
idiot is accusing them. My mother lived with my uncle in Jacob Lines
and then in Abbey Sinia lines( don't know what they call it now) in
Karachi till she got married in Navy's small quarters.
carnage in India at partition happened by un-happy Hindus with
division of India who incited not so bright Sikh leader Tara Singh who
came out with slogan like ( only on my dead body , Pakistan will
become a reality) and started killing which then spread all over and
then even Hindu Sikhs paid a heavy price in the parts now called
Pakistan .
And about that Tara Singh's stupid rants, Pakistan still become a big
reality and even the first Muslim nation having nuclear technology. So
much for his wisdom or say shear stupidity.
So stop being devious and become a peaceful neighbor. Pakistan has
learnt from his mistakes and has put together enough punch, no East
Pakistan fiasco can be repeated.
Lets resolve Kashmir problem peacefully and both live peacefully like
good neighbors in peace, propserity and harmony forever like Europe
after hundreds if not thousands years of fighting. .
Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
2005-08-19 08:55:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Aspiration of nationhood is dirty work in your dumb mind?? Then
Hindus should also be blamed for demanding Bharat Mata from Brits
devious Mr. Joshi. .
Dumb pig .. Bharat has always existed and it was Bharat that was
partitioned. I hope you Muslims use your skills in England to partition that
cuntry too!

Romanise
2005-08-17 05:41:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by Romanise
Post by unknown
Now you shouldhave no doubt why Jinnah opted for pakistan and events
later confirmed that Banyaa, Brahmin is way too shrewd to be trusted.
Jinnah being a very smart and highly educated fellow knew it full well
when he parted ways with congress.
Jinnah knew that Indira Gandhi will be killed by her Sikh body guards?
Senile, Jinnah was not a crook Jutishi , he was not in a business of
future predictions for Hindu event and marriages success if wed on
certain day and time . But he was a smart lawyer and he can identify
what a certain peoples collective mentality is or will be in
future. So do not come up with these smart arse lines.
Post by Romanise
It was his education that gave call for a 'Direct Action Day' on 16
August 1946
After staying with congress and judging their ways & means for a long
time. Hindu leadership later proved what he was saying all along.
Post by Romanise
from Mumabai and asked muslims of the subcontinent "Come,
those who want to rise to heaven. Come, those who are simple, wanting
in peace of mind and who are in distress. Those who are thieves,
goondas (thugs), those without the strength of character and those who
do not say their prayers - all come.
Prayers or not prayers, that is between the person and God. Thieves
were left back in India who still holding Kashmir through power,
thievery and hypocrisy, though paying a heavy price for that.
Post by Romanise
The shining gates of Heaven have
been opened for you. Let us enter in thousands"
We may not be very rich or mature but at least we are free to pursue
our goals. Eat beef without any fear. Don't have pigs, monkeys roaming
about in our cities and making life even more miserable for common
man than what it already is.
Post by Romanise
Did he also foresee how millions of east Pakistanis will be sent to
heaven and theirs women will be raped in tens of thousands?
If third fourth generations or sons become idiots, how can you blame
their elders? Society also changes human's behavior. When I left
Pakistan, we never even knew what assault guns are. School fights were
limited to fist fights etc. at the most knives were used and that also
was taken with great shock & awe .
See how the planet earth has changed in last 25 years.
Post by Romanise
After all
that incident happened 13 years prior to his prediction about Indira's
gunning down.
Well Banyaa has a definite role in that too ( via Hindu teachers all
over Bangla Desh) . However I do blame Vadera bhutto and dumb Yahya
for most of it.
Now after 34 years , can you tell us what has Banyaa gained out of
that 71 Fiasco through his intrigue.
India saved about 200 million muslims from paidoo dominance and torture.
Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri
2005-08-17 08:42:53 UTC
Permalink
That is what you say BUT I know from the acts of terrorism and the Koran's
evil verses that anyone who lives under Islam will be forced to convert or
will die. Thanks but no thanks for the offer.
Post by unknown
On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:19:03 +1000, "Neil_Hindu_Sikh_Kashmiri"
Now you shouldhave no doubt why Jinnah opted for pakistan and events
later confrimed that Banyaa, Brahmin is way too shrewd to be trusted.
Jinnah being a very smart and highly educated fellow knew it full well
when he parted ways with congress.
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